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The UK Government has announced its intention to introduce legislation to prevent large stores opening on Christmas Day.

Former communications workers' leader Alan Johnson MP, now minister for trade and industry, will play a crucial role in the parliamentary procedure. USDAW's Network magazine interviewed him shortly after the Government's announcement. This is what he had to say.

Q. Many people say the Government doesn't listen to trade unions. Do you think the decision to outlaw Christmas Day trading for big stores disproves this?

A. Well, we do listen to trade unions. There are probably more trade unionists in senior government than ever, and you can't walk down Whitehall without bumping into one of them. But, the point is that trade unions have to win over government by the intellectual force of their argument and, with Christmas Day trading, Usdaw ran a very effective campaign. It was the force of their argument, and the way that argument was presented, that convinced us Usdaw was right.

Q. You are an ex-trade union leader yourself. Do you welcome the union's involvement in the consultation and lobbying process?

A. I don't think we could effectively make decisions on issues that effect large swathes of British workers without the input of the trade unions. I think their input is not only important for us as the Government, it's important for getting good law in this country.

Q. What happens next as far as the Parliamentary procedure is concerned?

A. Well we've gone out with the consultation document, the consultation finishes on July 2. Then we have to find a slot in the parliamentary timetable; now we might be able to do that by supporting a Private Member's Bill. There's been various Private Member's Bills on this issue, Kevin Hughes, the MP for Doncaster North, was particularly keen to address this for a Private Member's Bill. In the end, because of the opposition, we did not get the chance to do that, but if it's Government supported, what we call a Hand-Out Bill, that's one option. We certainly intend to find parliamentary time in the process, but that's something I'm not in total control of.

Q. Has the Government come across any section of the retail industry that's strongly opposed to the ban on Christmas Day trading?

A. No. I think the fact that Usdaw was very careful in its campaign to direct this at shops with more than 280 sq.m, 3,000 sq.ft., and to link it to the 1994 Sunday Trading Act, and to point out the anomaly that we protect the very important spirit of Christmas Day when it falls on a Sunday, but we don't protect it on any other day. Generally, we found retailers to be supportive and I cannot think of a single main retailer that was hostile to the notion of keeping Christmas Day special.

Q. Do you think there is a public demand to open on December 25?

A. There is no demand from the public and that's a very important part of the brief consultation we did last year. We wrote to every retailer, to the Consumer Associations and to various charities, and there is simply none. but there is a real fear by some retailers that if their competitors open, they will be forced to open, and that's the kind of spiral of decline we aim to address.

Q. What do you think of our campaign to close large stores at Christmas?

A. I think it was a tremendous campaign, very effective, and conducted in the right spirit. It wasn't screaming invective at government, it was saying here's an issue that needs to be addressed, and it was actually typical of Usdaw. In my own region the Usdaw Area Organiser, Tony Aylward, who's been a tremendous advocate of this campaign, met with me a long time ago to put this issue across. I think Usdaw's effectiveness is really demonstrated in the way that it's conducted this campaign. It's a lesson many other unions could follow.

Q. Finally, is it likely that the ban on large shops opening on Christmas Day will be in place for the coming Christmas?

A. I think that's very unlikely, because of the way the parliamentary procedure works. First of all we have to have consultation, then we have to have legislation. This has to go through both Houses, through committee stage, through report stage, and then we have to give a decent period of notice of what we intend to do.

So, for all of those reasons, I think that's very unlikely, but I really don't think that's the crucial issue here. I think even fewer stores opened Christmas 2002 than opened Christmas 2001, and now we've got the consultation document out and people are aware which way the Government's mind is turning, I think it's very unlikely that there will be a problem. This Christmas, and certainly the year after, we should have cleared all the legislative hurdles.